Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) - UK guitar forum for guitar shops, guitar dealers, guitar reviews, guitar technicians, guitar tuition and more

#269579 - 31/12/09 09:21 AM Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!)
Noise_Maker Noise_Maker Professional Forumite! Registered: 23/10/07 Posts: 881 Loc: Usually on the Sofa	Morning All, I've been walking through the Amp forum to try and find the answer to my question; I've not been able to though. I must add it was a fairly quick peek! I've been looking at amps as I'm thinking of possibly replacing mine in the new year but don't really know where to start. I'm aware there are valve amps, normal amps and amps which allow for amp modelling etc. When reading through the guitar press they seem to direct one towards thinking Valve amps are better, although I have read that some of the new modelling amps can be as good. Could anyone explain the whole valve thing to me? In terms of my playing, I do it badly, modely blues and light rocky stuff. I've got a digitec RP350 so am not too concerned about on board effects etc. Budget wise...well not too sure at the moment; I',m guessing somewhere between £200 - £300 but would reconcider. Thankies Martin _________________________ Guitars: Kimbara Strat Copy : Cort G250 : Variax 600 : Crafter TC045/N Amps: Kustom 16 Watt Jobby Other bits: Digitech RP250 : BYOC Octave Fuzz : M-Audio Fastrack Pro AI : Guitar Rig 4 and Reaper http://www.myguitarblog.co.uk
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#269580 - 31/12/09 09:34 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: Noise_Maker]
ElRayoX ElRayoX Be Nice (I'm New!) Registered: 30/12/09 Posts: 14 Loc: Manchester	If you're serious about playing, there is NO alternative to a valve amp. No amount of clever transistor circuit design or high-tech modelling has ever been able to reproduce the natural warmth, openness, crunch and overdrive beauty of a heated-up valve amp in full voice. And it never will. At a pinch, I'd take a valve preamp with a transistor power amp like a lot of the newer Marshall combos. Don't be fooled by names like Valvestate, those are transistor monstrsities. THe bottom line is I'd prefer a 15 Watt all-valve like the little Fender Hot Rods to a 100 Watt transistor amp. Valves sound better and they always will.
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#269582 - 31/12/09 09:51 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: ElRayoX]
dftaylor dftaylor Be Nice (I'm New!) Registered: 20/12/09 Posts: 12	It just depends what you want it to do. If you want flexibility, ease of use and great sound, the Vox Valvetronix range is excellent, plus with the use of a pre-amp tube the overdrives and amp response are very natural. It also sounds great at low volume. I''d agree about the little Fenders though - I have a Hot Rod Deluxe (40w) and a Champ 600 (5w), and both sound incredible. The main difference is the responsiveness of the amps - particularly with the 600 and it's more natural overdrive - you really need to take time to get to know your guitar, your amp, and how these interact along with any pedals. Modelling amps are incredibly useful for recording, and while I'd agree broadly that they never sound quite as good as the real thing, they are great value for money while you nail down exactly what sort of sound you want. My stable of guitar sounds for recording means I'd need to spend about £30,000 on amplifiers. That's obviously crazy, so I have my two live amps (the aforementioned ones), a back up Line 6 head, and for recording I have Waves GTR3 and NI Guitar Rig modelling software. I don't think either technology is better, just for different purposes. Go to a showroom and try a few out. If you want the best of both worlds, the Spider Valve from Line 6 is fantastic too.
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#269583 - 31/12/09 09:59 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: ElRayoX]
Not the DJ Not the DJ Forum Council Member Old Timer Registered: 25/02/04 Posts: 1533 Loc: Kenilworth	I've only recently got my first all valve amp, and boy it's a different world to what I've played before. I've played various Line 6 modelling amps and a few other random solid state amps at a rehearsal studio (plus the Marshall Valvestate I had for years) and nothing compares to a proper valve amp. The feel is totally different, they can be so responsive to the way you pick and how the volume is set on your guitar (roll it back to clean up the sound). This is my opinion of course, and some modelling amps do sound ok, but at bedroom/practice volumes. Crank one up on stage next to a true valve amp and there's a world of difference. You mention Blues and Rock, pretty much every great song in those genres would have been on a valve amp. You might notice the marketing of most modelling amp or valve hybrids mentions getting the 'valve like tone'. That tells you something! Col _________________________ Gibson The Paul '78 / Les Paul Smartwood / Godin Exit 22 / Simon & Patrick Folk CW / Hayden M.o.f.o
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#269585 - 31/12/09 10:13 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: Noise_Maker]
Lurcher Lurcher Professional Forumite! Registered: 09/02/09 Posts: 689 Loc: Tipperary, Ireland	Martin, I use, one way or another, all three types of amp. The idea that one is better than another is very misleading. If it were that simple, at least one if the three types would have died out. Most people find that valve amps sound 'warmer' and that is because, at higher volume, the distortion that creeps in is quite smooth. On Solid State amps including modeling amps it is more harsh but is not heard until the highest volumes. So for the most part distortion effects have to be generated externally by a pedal or effects processor of some kind, The bad news is that most distortion pedals work best with valve amps and are particularly poor when teamed with modeling amps, This would be down to clashes in the way amp models are created and often ends up with a distortion being distorted again which sounds 'fizzy' at best. Another thing to be cautious about is wattage rating. This is measured at the point where the wave form of the amp starts to break up. On all SS amps this is much higher than on valve amps. The SS circuitry is a lot 'cleaner' and gives a purer sound as already mentioned. The result is that a 50w SS amp delivers about the same audible sound as a 25w valve amp. This is a very rough guide as amps vary a lot in their efficiency, let alone what the speakers do. So, that's the background to me saying that valve amps are best at the sounds associated with rock music and plain SS amps are better as giving the clear sounds of jazz and most blues. Modeling amps are ideal for home practice but are invading the territory of the other two with mixed results. Did I miss anything? Oh yes. High output pickups (I'd say those over 16k resistance and any active types) are much better at driving valve distortion than SS distortion. In my experience, multi effects like your RP work a bit better with valve amps but require quite different settings to get the same sounds as through 'phones or SS amps. in fact, that unit you have probably has better sounds than most modeling amps so your amp search can be a but broader than for someone who wants amp modeling for all his sounds. If I were going amp shopping with you, I'd get you to try a Fender Champ XD which is just on the upper end of your budget, has great clean sound and its 5 watts would be perfect for home and recording. You could get a higher power modeling amp like a Roland Cube which would also serve you well but I think you'd prefer the sparkle of a Fender Valve amp. Wow wall of text! Brian _________________________ I pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Guitarist with The Silver Hoarde. Geriatric Metal for your weddings and wakes.
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#269591 - 31/12/09 10:46 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: Lurcher]
Noise_Maker Noise_Maker Professional Forumite! Registered: 23/10/07 Posts: 881 Loc: Usually on the Sofa	All, Thanks very much for such quick and thorough responses. Very helpful indeed! I think Valve is the way I'll go, I'll keep the amp I have as a backup...best of both worlds then! Martin _________________________ Guitars: Kimbara Strat Copy : Cort G250 : Variax 600 : Crafter TC045/N Amps: Kustom 16 Watt Jobby Other bits: Digitech RP250 : BYOC Octave Fuzz : M-Audio Fastrack Pro AI : Guitar Rig 4 and Reaper http://www.myguitarblog.co.uk
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#269594 - 31/12/09 10:50 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: Lurcher]
dftaylor dftaylor Be Nice (I'm New!) Registered: 20/12/09 Posts: 12	Originally Posted By: Lurcher If I were going amp shopping with you, I'd get you to try a Fender Champ XD which is just on the upper end of your budget, has great clean sound and its 5 watts would be perfect for home and recording. You could get a higher power modeling amp like a Roland Cube which would also serve you well but I think you'd prefer the sparkle of a Fender Valve amp. I think the Champ XD is 15w, but otherwise this is spot on. I'd forgotten about that range - good sounds, great built-in FX and capable of covering most realistic needs for blues and rock. I'm all about the Fender amps.
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#269601 - 31/12/09 01:11 PM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: dftaylor]
ElRayoX ElRayoX Be Nice (I'm New!) Registered: 30/12/09 Posts: 14 Loc: Manchester	Got to agree about the volume levels too. I switched from a 200 Watt a side Marshall transistor power amp to a 50 Watt a side valve unit and the increase in volume and perceived power is unbelievable. Plus my alder body strats which I was starting to think of as a bit dull and lifeless have just come alive and are a joy to play again.
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#270047 - 07/01/10 11:13 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: ElRayoX]
andyv andyv One of the Regulars Registered: 21/07/09 Posts: 57	I use a small Fender G Dec tranny amp at home due to the volume contstraints and a Peavey Bandit 30w valve map with the band. I have been through Line 6 and Marshall tranny amps which really do not cut it. The responsiveness, sound, feel etc is just way ahead and also in a live situation the volume of a 30w Peavey is great. I rarely have it turned past 3. The only tranny amp I do rate is the Award Session, which are not made any longer but can be bought on the bay quite cheaply. If you can, get a valve amp, anything else will just dissapoint - unless you play jazz. Andy _________________________ http://www.onemorenight.co.uk http://www.myspace.com/onemorenigthband
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#270051 - 07/01/10 11:55 AM Re: Amps (Valve vs....well the other sort!) [Re: andyv]
Jacktlad Jacktlad Old Timer Registered: 19/06/08 Posts: 1146 Loc: West Yorkshire	I used to know a guy who really liked Award Session amps. He liked mine so much he stole it. Still I went on to Marshall valves from there and I've never looked back.
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