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#280127 - 28/09/10 04:27 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: ]
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OldSwanner
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 31/08/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Warwick, UK
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My point is that if someone goes to a pub, they go to drink alcohol. If they go to a restaurant, they go to eat food. Nobody goes to a public place in order to breathe someone else's cigarette smoke, so they shouldn't be made to in order to enjoy the same freedom as a smoker.
Who's suggesting *making* anyone go anywhere? Not me.
In order to down a pint, I have to be actively involved. In order to avoid the potential health risks of environmental tobacco smoke, I would have to *not breathe* for as long as I was in that place.
What place are you talking about? There are no smoking pubs left
So non-smokers' freedom to enjoy a smoke free environment would be dependent on businesses' willingness to make significant investment in air conditioners and presumably sign up to some sort of commitment to air quality
Er, no. Under the first option I outlined (regulation of air quality) I suggested the status quo would remain unless a pub chose to adopt air-con. So non-smokers would be able to choose between non-smoking pubs and air conditioned. The air would even be cleaner in the air conditioned pub. Try to keep up.
When the long-term health of staff and customers alike was secondary to economic concerns. In practice, that "choice" was no choice, which made a blanket ban the only option.
If the majority as you repeatedly refer to of pubs' potential customers actually want air conditioned premises some bright spark will realise (would have realised) this and become very successful and rich.
_________________________
Gibson Blueshawk Fender Blues Junior/Hotrod Deluxe http://www.psgt.co.uk ... *Real* tuition for serious guitar students in Leamington Spa and Warwick.
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#280128 - 28/09/10 05:20 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: OldSwanner]
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english_bob
english_bob
Unregistered
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When you fail to successfully read and understand this:
My point is that if someone goes to a pub, they go to drink alcohol. If they go to a restaurant, they go to eat food. Nobody goes to a public place in order to breathe someone else's cigarette smoke, so they shouldn't be made to in order to enjoy the same freedom as a smoker. Who's suggesting *making* anyone go anywhere? Not me.
(hint: there are three sentences. Two explain why people go to pubs and restaurants, the third- the one that contains the words "made to"- deals with cigarette smoke.)
...and suddenly lose the ability to recognise a hypothetical situation, having just invented one of your own:
[ In order to down a pint, I have to be actively involved. In order to avoid the potential health risks of environmental tobacco smoke, I would have to *not breathe* for as long as I was in that place. What place are you talking about? There are no smoking pubs left
...following up with this
is a bit rich. There's really no need to be rude, now is there?
So non-smokers' freedom to enjoy a smoke free environment would be dependent on businesses' willingness to make significant investment in air conditioners and presumably sign up to some sort of commitment to air quality Er, no. Under the first option I outlined (regulation of air quality) I suggested the status quo would remain unless a pub chose to adopt air-con. So non-smokers would be able to choose between non-smoking pubs and air conditioned. The air would even be cleaner in the air conditioned pub. Try to keep up.
Whether you're proposing this *instead* of a smoking ban or *as well*, it still represents a large outlay for businesses, and I'll bet they'd prefer the much smaller investment of a few of those heat umbrella gadgets and ashtrays in their gardens. We'll never know.
When the long-term health of staff and customers alike was secondary to economic concerns. In practice, that "choice" was no choice, which made a blanket ban the only option. If the majority as you repeatedly refer to of pubs' potential customers actually want air conditioned premises some bright spark will realise (would have realised) this and become very successful and rich.
I didn't suggest that the public did want air conditioning. It was you who put forward air conditioning as an alternative to an outright ban, so I'm not sure why you'd choose to point out that it wouldn't work 
Edited by english_bob (28/09/10 05:22 AM)
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#280130 - 28/09/10 05:37 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: ]
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OldSwanner
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 31/08/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Warwick, UK
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Nobody goes to a public place in order to breathe someone else's cigarette smoke, so they shouldn't be made to in order to enjoy the same freedom as a smoker.
Actually I think you'll find, under the rules of the English language, that the "made to" relates to the "Nobody goes to" part of the sentence. As it now sounds like you intended the "made to" to relate to the breathing of smoke, you should have phrased like this ...
"Nobody intends to breathe in other people's smoke when they go to a public place, so they shouldn't be made to in order to enjoy the same freedom as a smoker."
In fact even this probably relates more to the "Nobody" in question's intent, more than the breathing, but would certainly have sufficed.
So please don't criticise me for interpreting your words correctly when it was you who was wrong *again*.
In fact the sentence doesn't even make sense. How can making someone breathe in someone else's smoke afford them the same freedom as a smoker? Lol.
Edited by OldSwanner (28/09/10 06:00 AM)
_________________________
Gibson Blueshawk Fender Blues Junior/Hotrod Deluxe http://www.psgt.co.uk ... *Real* tuition for serious guitar students in Leamington Spa and Warwick.
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#280131 - 28/09/10 06:03 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: OldSwanner]
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english_bob
english_bob
Unregistered
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You clearly understood the intended meaning of what I wrote, so I can only assume that by resorting to grammatical pedantry you're trying to salvage some sense of superiority in the face of an argument you couldn't counter. You've done that all along.
You've yet to show any evidence that the smoking ban is damaging live music in this country, which was the original point you made. You haven't even managed to mount a convincing argument against the ban itself.
In any case you can't change the law with hyperbole or fallacious arguments so at the risk of letting you believe you've won the argument when all you've really done is bore all other debaters away with wilful misinterpretation, persistently concentrating on minor, irrelevant inaccuracies and just plain being rude, I think I'll call it a day.
Ultimately, I can, and do, still enjoy a pint in a many a smoke free pub and I have no objections to the methods by which I've been given that pleasure. Apparently you're at home in a fug of indignation and --ooops naughty word-- smoke, and if your demeanour at your local was anything like it is here, I doubt they miss you.
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#280133 - 28/09/10 07:03 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: ]
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OldSwanner
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 31/08/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Warwick, UK
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(hint: there are three sentences. Two explain why people go to pubs and restaurants, the third- the one that contains the words "made to"- deals with cigarette smoke.)
In reply to the condescending paragraph above, I demonstrated that you were once again, wrong. A simple apology would suffice rather than throwing back accusations of "grammatical pedantry".
In addition, first you said this ...
When you fail to successfully read and understand this:
Now you say this ...
You clearly understood the intended meaning of what I wrote
The two statements are in complete contradiction of each other. Which do you mean? Do *you* even know what you're trying to say?
Perhaps this lack of clarity within your own mind is an indication as to why you are only A' level standard on my guitar technique test. I'm not seeing a very impressive level of reasoning from you.
_________________________
Gibson Blueshawk Fender Blues Junior/Hotrod Deluxe http://www.psgt.co.uk ... *Real* tuition for serious guitar students in Leamington Spa and Warwick.
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#280134 - 28/09/10 07:12 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: ]
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OldSwanner
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 31/08/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Warwick, UK
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all you've really done is bore all other debaters away with wilful misinterpretation, persistently concentrating on minor, irrelevant inaccuracies and just plain being rude, I think I'll call it a day.
In Freudian psychology, Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person unconsciously denies their own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, a tool, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
_________________________
Gibson Blueshawk Fender Blues Junior/Hotrod Deluxe http://www.psgt.co.uk ... *Real* tuition for serious guitar students in Leamington Spa and Warwick.
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#280135 - 28/09/10 07:21 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: OldSwanner]
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english_bob
english_bob
Unregistered
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Perhaps this lack of clarity within your own mind is an indication as to why you are only A' level standard on my guitar technique test. I'm not seeing a very impressive level of reasoning from you.
That's funny, last time you mentioned this, you said:
My take is that the biggest dividing line is about 100bpm (95% of *all* players will be under 100 unless they've looked at this sort of stuff in this way before), so you can take satisfaction in being in the top 5% :-) When satisfaction with that wanes, you can start aiming for the top 1% (my estimate 150bpm+), and you'll learn something every bpm along the way.
Really disappointing that you feel the need to stoop to this sort of thing.
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#280136 - 28/09/10 07:28 AM
Re: live music on the increase but less places to play ??!!
[Re: ]
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OldSwanner
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 31/08/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Warwick, UK
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I wager if you up your level of reasoning you can get to the top 1% :-)
Post a video, and you'll start learning fast.
_________________________
Gibson Blueshawk Fender Blues Junior/Hotrod Deluxe http://www.psgt.co.uk ... *Real* tuition for serious guitar students in Leamington Spa and Warwick.
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