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#289227 - 01/11/11 03:17 PM
The jazz corner
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Lester
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 28/05/11
Posts: 543
Loc: UK & Slovakia
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As mentioned in the topic Learning to play jazz guitar I bought a Burny RFA-75 archtop from Richard's Guitars and a copy of Mark LeVine's The Jazz Theory Book with the intention of learning jazz guitar. I reckon this book will keep me going at an enjoyable and leisurely pace for a few years.
Okay, first conversation topic: on page 4 it says, "If you can sing an interval accurately, you'll find that the interval is easier to hear when you play it." This has been my weak spot throughout the 40+ years I have been playing guitar and so I want to work on this. A friend tells me that Mozart could not sing, he just heard everything in his head. I suspect that Mozart could have sung intervals accurately. Can you? Should (jazz) guitarists be able to sing and recognise intervals accurately?
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#289231 - 01/11/11 06:45 PM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: Lester]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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I would say yes, work on this stuff although don't get too hung up on it. I'm lucky in a way (didn't feel lucky at the time!) but I was kind of made to go to violin and piano lessons when I was a kid, and also took music theory classes. I can't play the violin now to save my life, can plonk around a bit on the piano, and a lot of the theory has stayed with me... but the ear training stuff I did when young has helped me over the years. I was made to do exactly what that book is talking about e.g. teacher/examiner plays a low C note, I am asked to sing a note above that by interval - maybe a minor 6th above say, so I would hopefully sing an A flat to get that one right. Sometime they would play a high note and ask for a note an interval below it instead.
I would say that for jazz, you do kind of need to hear in your head what you are going to play, and also the harmonies that you are playing over - I'm talking about improvising here really. So if for example, you are learning some lydian mode shapes to use over major chords, you want to get the sound of the lydian mode into your head plus the major type chords you will play it over. The lydian mode has a sharpened 4th/11th which has a distinctive characteristic sound, compared to the natural 4th of a major scale, so that is a key sound to become familiar with in that example.
For learning to play jazz, I would say don't get too obsessed with intervals specifically, or ear training - don't let it take over your life - but do keep coming back to it and doing a bit when the mood takes you - you will get better over the coming months (years to be honest!). And when you learn something new - a chord/scale/lick or whatever, don't just learn the geography of where to put your fingers, but also try to get the sound of it in your head. Just try to be sound aware as much as possible I guess. It is more important to be able to hear things accurately in your head, although if you can correctly sing something (never mind the quality of your voice)then I think you must be hearing it right. What a ramble, I'll stop now... 
Edited by Megi (01/11/11 06:47 PM)
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#289237 - 01/11/11 10:33 PM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: Mark P]
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elkay
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 23/11/05
Posts: 386
Loc: Croydon
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Isn't this what 'playing by ear' is all about, using the ability to 'hear/sing' intervals in your head, and playing the notes you're 'hearing/singing'?
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#289244 - 02/11/11 09:55 AM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: elkay]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Isn't this what 'playing by ear' is all about, using the ability to 'hear/sing' intervals in your head, and playing the notes you're 'hearing/singing'?
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#289249 - 02/11/11 12:12 PM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: Lester]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Lester - I very much doubt you have "almost no aural skill whatsoever" - if you are a person who loves and responds to music (and I suspect you are...  ) then you must have some aural awareness already, so hopefully it's more a case of focusing that ability in a more concrete kind of way.
As I say, my recommendation would be to try and incorporate the aural stuff as you learn the things you are going to use in jazz. So for e.g. if you are learning a chord shape, also learn where the different chord tones are (root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th etc.) and the sound quality they have in relation to the root (i.e. an interval). Same sort of thing for different scale/mode types. Having grade 5 theory actually is a massive help too - jazz is a different musical area, but you already understand the building blocks of music, a lot of people start on jazz without this - not the best way IMO!
EDIT: reading back my post, I would add that doing some specific aural training every day is a good thing too.
Edited by Megi (02/11/11 12:15 PM)
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#289272 - 03/11/11 12:03 PM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: Megi]
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Lester
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 28/05/11
Posts: 543
Loc: UK & Slovakia
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I see that www.musictheory.net has some helpful aural exercises to practice recognising intervals, scales and chords.
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#289282 - 03/11/11 02:40 PM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: Lester]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Hadn't seen that, cheers for the link!
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#289284 - 03/11/11 03:00 PM
Re: The jazz corner
[Re: Megi]
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DaveBass
Old Timer
Registered: 30/10/02
Posts: 6462
Loc: The wilds of Surrey
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Agreed, ear training is certainly very important, especially for jazz musicians, who mostly play by ear.
Try learning the sound of different chords, e.g. major chords, minor chords, seventh chords etc. Try "visualising" (auralising?) them in your head. Can you aurally imagine what a major seventh chord sounds like? Work on it till you can.
The other day I put my fingers randomly on a keyboard and thought, "Hmm, that sounds like a ninth chord...", checked the notes and found it was (much to my surprise).
The ability to identify chord progressions is very important in jazz, because you can improvise a melody (or a bass line) around the chords.
Transposition is also a very useful skill, because it reduces the number of chord progressions you need to be familiar with by a factor of (potentially) twelve. I.e. if you know the progression in C, you can transpose it into A, Bb, G, whatever. This means becoming very familiar with the common keys. You need to know instinctively that an F in the key of C is equivalent to a Bb in the key of F or an A in the key of E.
In jazz, the main keys are flat ones (F, Bb, Eb) rather than sharp ones (E, A, D), because most brass instruments are in Bb. This can be awkward for a guitarist.
Dave
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