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#290476 - 09/12/11 11:57 AM
Re: Fret levelling.
[Re: Jocko]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Hi Jocko - thanks for the invitation, and I will indeed have a crack. Unfortunately I have already done it to 3 of my Guitars, and am running out of Guitars to work on and thus get photos. When I get my strat project underway properly I will be doing a level on the neck, so I can make that a separate thread to show some pictures. Plus I have an acoustic guitar that has a bit of a buzz on the first fret high E (caused by a low fret) so I might have a crack at that one some time soon and post some images.
As you know, I have been a bit reticent to give a lot of detail, as this is perhaps not the recommended way to do things, and not having experience of other techniques or being a trained guitar technician, I don't want to be accused of promoting/recommending something that might be considered inferior. And I'm sure what I do does have it's limitations - for one thing you need to accept flat-ish "bus roof" type of fret profile (fortunately I like this) and also the profile of the frets cannot be all the same because the crowning/re-shaping bit is done by hand without a special fret shaping file - that said, any variation is not enough to be visible or noticeable when playing the guitar. I do feel that a big advantage of this method is that all the frets get hit by the level at the same time, and you can be confident that they will all be the same height when finished.
But to carry on with the guide (this is the exact way I do it, but some things might be open to changes)...
Equipment needed:
1. One level with a long milled flat surface, approx 2 foot long - I got a B&Q one like this B&Q 600mm Euro Box Level
2. A straight edged metal ruler - I got an aluminium one which seems fine (from B&Q again!) but a good steel ruler might be better, and at least as long as the fingerboard.
3. Various grits of sandpaper/wet and dry paper, I use:
- approx 200 grit for levelling the frets (actually it's not that critical as to the exact grit - I used 400 grit for one job, and it was OK).
- 600 grit for shaping/re-crowning
- 1000 grit for smoothing once the fret is shaped
4. 0000 steel wool to polish the fret after smoothing with the 1000 grit
5. Metal polish to give the frets a final polish after the steel wool - I got some "T-Cut Original Metal Polish" from Tesco of all places for about £3, but I'm sure anything sensible will be fine.
6. Double sided sticky tape, used to attach sandpaper to the milled surface on the level.
7. Reasonably tough tape (I use gaffer tape) to place either side of the fret being worked on, to protect the fingerboard/neck
8. Dark coloured permanent marker to mark the fret tops.
The method is:
1. Remove the strings, then get the neck as straight as possible unstrung, using the steel/aluminium ruler edge as a guide. I do this by holding the ruler edge to the frets and holding the neck/ruler up to the light. It's a bit tricky, but with care you can see where the frets are not touching the ruler edge. It's a case of making repeated truss rod adjustments until you get it as good as possible. I have sometimes found that a neck can have more than one low fret region, and really what I try to do is minimise the amount of fret material that will have to be removed to bring all the frets down to the same level, kind of finding the best overall comprimise - it's a judgement call really! Worth spending a bit of time on though, and remember that a bit of settling can occur after a truss rod adjustment so don't be in too much of a hurry. Also, I think if the top few frets are low, but the rest are fairly level, then this is OK as I don't think it's critical that these high frets are hit by the levelling (you won't notice the slightly higher action on these frets when the job is done) - I have had one guitar like this, I felt it was better to "sacrifice" the top 2 or 3 frets in the interest of reducing the amount of levelling needed for the rest of the fingerboard.
2. Attach 200 grit paper to the milled level surface with double sided sticky tape - I cut the paper into long strips (a bit wider than the level) with a craft knife, put the tape on the level, then attach the paper (should need 2 and a bit strips) then trim to the edges of the level with craft knife.
3. At this stage you may want to protect the guitar body and headstock by whatever method seems practical - I've done it by taping newspaper over. Worth doing as it would be quite easy to slip and put a horrible sandpaper mark on your nice body finish!
4. Clearly mark the top surface of all the frets with the permanent marker.
5. The moment of truth! Lay the guitar down in such a way that the neck is well supported along it's length (I use cushions!) and then start to plain the frets. You will see, from the drawn-on marker lines being sanded away, which frets are high and being hit first. The aim is to get to the point where there is a bit of a sanded flat on all the frets.
However, do beware that it would be easy to sand quite a lot of material very quickly, and also (IMO) if the top few frets have not been quite reached, it probably doesn't matter, and it would be better to stop.
Also, of course, try to be as even in your sanding going across the fingerboard as possible. When sanding the frets, I use both lengthwise and across the frets movements of the level.
Another thing - the sandpaper does get worn after a while and you may need to apply some new paper to the level before the job is done, especially if the frets were badly uneven to start with (but of course beware of taking too much height off the frets also!).
6. Now it is time to re-profile, smooth and polish the frets. I work from the highest fret to the lowest i.e. finishing with the fret nearest the nut last. So for each fret I:
- put tape up to each edge to protect the fingerboard
- again mark the top surface with the permanent marker
- with a small-ish piece of 600 grit paper (sometimes folded) I work on each side of the fret to put a curve back into the profile, reducing the marker applied to the top to a thin line. You will get a feel for this, but I think if you want a very pronounced curve to the fret this is not possible (you would need the right type of fret file). What you can get OK though is the kind of "bus-roof" profile I mentioned before.
- smooth the fret with a small piece of 1000 grit paper
- polish the fret with the 0000 steel wool
- final polish with a soft cloth and a little metal polish
- then move on to the next fret...
I find it is also possible to do a little work on the fret ends at the 600 and 1000 grit stages, but I don't try to do any more than soften any sharp edges there may be, and be very careful, as it would be easy to put scratches in the finish at the sides of the fingerboard.
That really is it! You just work down the whole neck. You will produce quite a bit of fine metal dust in the process (Blu-tack is quite good for picking this up off the fingerboard if needed), and also the wire wool tends to produce fine dust too, so possible some form of face-protection would be a good idea (though I have coped without this so far). And watch out! this stuff tends to stick to pickup magnets and get into the various places you don't want it to if allowed - again a good reason for protecting/covering the guitar body. Also you may need to do a bit of work on the nut to get the slots to the right depth of course.
The job takes me a fair while - at least a few hours - but could be done in stages of course. I tend to work quite slowly though  . I would say maybe try it on not your favorite guitar first, then you can make a judgement on how you find the method, plus build confidence by the time you get to your better Guitars. But I was amazed by how much of a difference the fret levelling made - I found myself adjusting the action way lower than I had been able to before without even realising I was doing it. But measuring at the 12th fret confirms to me that the action can be set comfortably below 2mm - on the last guitar I did, it now goes from approx. 1.8mm on the low E to about 1.3mm on the high E (I use a small card with a mm scale marked on from one edge to set/measure the action).
Again, sorry about the lack of pictures - I'll try and rectify that in the future. This youtube video is where I got the idea in the first place, although he does not use the permanent marker which I think he should! DIY fretjob on Youtube and I got the marker idea from this youtube vid (he only uses the marker to mark the top of the fret when re-shaping, but I like to do it when levelling also): Level a high fret - YouTube
If you do have a go, please let me know how it goes, and what your impressions are, cheers!
EDIT: By the way, in the YouTube video, he removes the nut, but I don't find that you have to do this to do the levelling. Also watching again, I notice he is using 400 grit for the re-shaping - maybe that is better, I don't know, but possibly worth experimenting with.
Edited by Megi (09/12/11 12:56 PM)
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#290494 - 09/12/11 07:04 PM
Re: Fret levelling.
[Re: Jocko]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Cheers Jocko, I will get the photo thing done next time I do this job, but have a crack at it yourself anyway! - I'm sure a careful worker such as yourself will be able to do a good job with the information I've already given. I'm far from an expert craftsman, and I got great results straight away just working from things I found on YouTube and by thinking things through carefully.
I have a question for you though... what are the nut files you use? and how many/which sizes do you have? I'm pretty sure this is one investment I really do need to make, so any info/advice you could give would be helpful, cheers!
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#290505 - 09/12/11 09:06 PM
Re: Fret levelling.
[Re: Megi]
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Ape09090
Old Timer
Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 1188
Loc: South Wales
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I have to hand it you fella's,there's no job that's not worth trying is there.
I've always been a bit wary of trying anything with the fretboard but this has planted a seed in my mind now,gawd help my old Squier.
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#290542 - 11/12/11 03:37 AM
Re: Fret levelling.
[Re: Megi]
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Surfsilver
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 04/12/11
Posts: 177
Loc: London
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Good for you Megi, I applaud your endeavours, approach and search for alternates to throwing money at things because they are labelled ‘special magic guitar’ or something.
I’ve used a 2ft Box Level for years as it’s a great inexpensive tool for the job, used with caution. You don’t appear to mention a humble Radius Gauge which would help identify what radius you’re starting with and what, I presume, you’d like to preserve.
Can make your own or for a few squid on evilbay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACOUSTIC-ELECT...=item519c3838ae
On setting the neck before doing fret work, as you say the rule sits on top of the frets and not on the board itself. Not rocket science to make one that does. Get a 2ft rule (about £2), decide which side you want to preserve, lay it on the frets just below the nut and mark the fret positions with a felt marker. Thereafter file notches where the marks are.
Bash’it & Quit are a tool source, or perhaps Toolstation or Screwfix
Re metal polish, if you feel you need to use it, one that’s long been acclaimed is Solvo Autosol. However, while it works very well on solid metals it’s not recommended for plated items – like pickups – unless the item is very heavily plated – like car bumpers and motorbike exhausts used to be. Also, use sparingly and remove any residue.
Try Halfords or Autosol
As an alternate to wire wool for the fine stuff or fretboard finger muck cleaning – particularly for finger muck - you can get pads in 000 for the job.
Finishing Pads
If one of your linked vids, they end up with some ‘special’ fretboard oil. In no position to test any special qualities or claims, but it always seemed that cleaning and ‘feeding’ are separate operations? The wood people say Rosewood (or Ebony) are not ‘hungry’ woods but are of course organic. As the wood is not lacquered etc, there’s most likely sweat and associated grime. I’ve never really cared to try solvents, inorganics, silicates, so when needed use simple lemon juice or vinegar + nail/toothbrush. On heavy deposits a plastic card and/or a 000 pad mentioned above – careful with any inlays. Some never ‘feed’ the wood, but if like me you do, I found a lifetime supply for under £2.
Their may be something mystical about Lemon Oil, but what? Nosing around a supermarket in the deli oils bit, I found several types of pure oils derived from trees or nuts – sounds ‘wood’ and organic to me? Bought a 250ml bottle of pure walnut oil for under £2, and it worked a treat. Tiny amount on cotton wool, with a second dab after 12 hours. After another 12 hours (longer is better), almost all had been absorbed leaving a natural – and in no way harmful - sheen. Only consideration is that it will darken the wood somewhat. Other than that, if you get bored with it lasting so long, or give up Guitars, you can put it on a salad.
Know some who advocate pure olive oil – and why not.
_________________________
~~~~~~~~~~ "I've suffered for my music, now it's your turn" ~ 
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#290543 - 11/12/11 10:42 AM
Re: Fret levelling.
[Re: Surfsilver]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Cheers Surfsilver, some nice tips to add to things there - I especially like the idea to make a notched rule to sit on the fingerboard surface, I think that could be very useful - why didn't I think of that before?!
Like the radius gauges too - I do know the radiuses (or is it radii? ) for my Guitars, annoyingly the Ibanez has an unusual 17" radius - probably hard to find a gauge for. I have managed so far by just being careful to keep the levelling even across the board - I don't notice any issues with this, but for the money I may as well add the radius gauges to my toolkit, they can only help.
Re metal polish, I find it adds a nice final gleam to the frets, but I would agree that they are already pretty shiny after the steel wool.
On the fretboard oil question, my experience chimes with yours - ages ago (mid 1980's) a luthier advised me to get some almond oil (not unlike your walnut oil) so I got a small bottle from Superdrug. I've used just over half of it in the ensuing 2 and a half decades! I don't ever let my fingerboards get to the gunked up stage! and have fairly un-sweaty hands, but I do appreciate the tips for cleaning the board - I agree that the cleaning and replenishing are 2 seperate stages. But thanks a lot for adding to the thread, I find it very helpful, cheers!
EDIT: just to add, but I think those abasive pads would be useful too, but I have a load of the fine wire wool at present, so will probably keep using that for the moment.
Edited by Megi (11/12/11 10:46 AM)
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#290548 - 11/12/11 02:39 PM
Re: Fret levelling.
[Re: Jocko]
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Ape09090
Old Timer
Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 1188
Loc: South Wales
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Jif lemon watered down a bit for the scrub,slightly warm water applied sparingly for the rinse and finish with virgin olive oil,have tried linseed as well.
Leaving some drying time in between.
Edited by Ape09090 (11/12/11 02:45 PM)
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