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#290891 - 21/12/11 04:08 PM
Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
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organgrinder
Be Nice (I'm New!)
Registered: 20/12/11
Posts: 3
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Hello, I've just joined. i'm in my sixties, been learning to play 11 months, loving it and wished I had started 40 years ago. I've used a borrowed guitar so far, to see if I would stick with it. I'm ready to buy an acoustic but had conflicting advice. Friends say get the best you can afford. A dealer said spend mo more than £130 and don't buy used. His argument wed I am too inexperienced to know what I want really and could spend £500 on a guitar I wouldn't like after a few months. What is members' advice please? I've looked at a Faith Saturn (£500), Tanglewood same price Yamahw Fg 730S, and that dealer's £99 Wesrbrook.
Thanks, Organgrinder
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#290895 - 21/12/11 07:33 PM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: organgrinder]
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Mark P
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 455
Loc: Scotland
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Welcome to the forum. 
Yes it's tricky when you're new to guitar to know what you need or want. Damn it - it's tricky after 40 years too.
The advantage of buying used is that there's less of a loss to incur if you find you don't like it or if you want to upgrade later. The disadvantage is knowing whether you're getting a good guitar with no problems. You'd hope if it was from a dealer that they would be looking out for the customer getting good quality but it doesn't always work that way.
I've found cheaper acoustics MUCH more difficult to play than mid range, so I'm not convinced by the £130 new argument. For example I went from a Vintage V300 acoustic ("Best acoustic under £1000" was the guitar Magazine quote about it) to a Tanglewood TW45NSB. Now that was a jump from £130 to £500. But heck - chalk and cheese. The easier playing action on the Tanglewood and the far more beautiful sounds coming from it might well have encouraged me to get to grips with playing a lot more than the Vintage would have done had I been a beginner. But the loss incurred on selling the £500 guitar if it didn't work out would be pretty hefty.
I do have strong recollections after all these years of the cheap Guitars I had when young and I tried to frst play guitar. It did not help my motivation - no wonder it fizzled out. Even when I came back to it in later life I started with budget Guitars again. I only started to make real progress when I upped to mid range gear. Depends on your determination and your aptitude too of course - there will be plenty of players here who raced on to being good players very quickly using cheaper gear.
I'm guessing from what you haven't said in your post that you don't have any guitar playing friends - they're always useful to help out in those early stages.
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#290896 - 21/12/11 07:45 PM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: organgrinder]
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Megi
Old Timer
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Hi organgrinder, and welcome to the forum by the way. Actually I had to think a bit about your question - I don't think there is a definite right or wrong here. If you take the dealer's advice and go for a lower-end (but hopefully reasonable instrument) then if you are a keen guitarist I think you have to accept that you will inevitably want to upgrade to a better, i.e. more pricey, instrument at some stage in the future, maybe after another year or so. Personally I'm not sure if this is the best idea.
My advice really would be to play as many Guitars as you can - different makes and designs, at the various price points, and you could also look at instruments at around £200, £300 and £400 as well as at the ends of your price range. Really try to get a feel for what is available. If you find you are able to appreciate the benefits in sound and playability that a more expensive guitar gives, then in my opinion, you are justified in paying the extra money involved. Looking at your post, I see you have already tried a few - could you tell the differences between them?
Some basic requirements - the guitar should not have an excessively high action, and should be playable up and down the fingerboard, not just near the nut. Also in my view you should not even look at Guitars that do not have a solid (i.e. not laminated) spruce or cedar wood top. If you do end up spending four or five hundred on a guitar, you might well be able to find something with solid wood back and sides as well.
Ultimately, I think two things are most important: sound and playability. Trust your ears as well regarding sound - it's your guitar, and if it sounds good to you, it IS good!
_________________________
Graham, jazz guitar nut!
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#290900 - 21/12/11 10:55 PM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: Megi]
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organgrinder
Be Nice (I'm New!)
Registered: 20/12/11
Posts: 3
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Thanks Megi & Mark P. sounds like the best advice is to try as many as poss and just trust my instincts. I just hope the shop staff don't get fed up with me as I've been to 2 shops twice and still not made a decicion
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#290903 - 22/12/11 06:39 AM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: organgrinder]
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Surfsilver
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 04/12/11
Posts: 177
Loc: London
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………..and still haven’t learned to use the shift key!  
A man after my age rather than my heart, but maybe that as well. It’s a bit like getting your first car. You’ve an idea of what you like the look of but not too sure yet of what makes a good drive.
Your dealer has his opinions, and no doubt agenda, and his advice may better fit an impoverished youngster? ”Don’t buy second hand”, why, doesn’t he sell second hand or has he got too much new stock to clear? ’Buy the best you can afford”, is an old stock instrument adage and by no means ‘wrong’ but also not inflexible. Also true to say the ‘best’ does not mean the most expensive. A fine instrument is a fine instrument, simple as that. And if you are the one considering buying it, you are the arbiter of it’s associated price tag.
You probably have a lot of people telling you ‘what you want’, and probably much of that coloured by what ‘they’ like? Quite normal. As others have said, try as many Guitars as you can and don’t be afraid to let yourself be heavily influenced by what YOU like the look of. It’s your money and you’re the one who has to live with it. Meaning you're the one who has to look at it with the urge to play it.
Is it not possible to have an old 6 string lag come with you, someone who you feel has worthwhile opinion? You don’t say whereabouts you are in the UK, if you do you may get an offer of help from someone here – God knows what you’d end up with though? 
_________________________
~~~~~~~~~~ "I've suffered for my music, now it's your turn" ~ 
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#290918 - 22/12/11 10:50 AM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: Jocko]
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DaveBass
Old Timer
Registered: 30/10/02
Posts: 6462
Loc: The wilds of Surrey
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Hi organgrinder, I'm in my 60s too and still a useless guitarist, though I play bass okay -- probably because I had double-bass lessons as a child but I've never had any guitar lessons.
Anyway, I'm in the fortunate position where I'm not limited financially, but if I were going to buy an acoustic, I definitely wouldn't go for the highest priced one; I'd go for the one that felt best to me. What other people think doesn't matter, they're not going to be playing it! Though of course personal recommendations are always helpful.
I don't know why, but some instruments just seem easier to play, just like some cars seem easier to drive, or some people easier to get along with. This is a personal thing and I'm sure there are people who would make the exact opposite choices from me.
I learnt double-bass initially on an old brute of an instrument that I had to fight all the way -- but when I found the right instrument (for me), it all became so much easier and I started to enjoy it a lot more and no doubt my playing improved.
So I'd encourage you to try out a lot of different Guitars and go for the one that sounds good to you and seems easy and natural to play. But as a beginner, you're going to progress with your playing, and then you may find the guitar is holding you back. What's best for a beginner isn't necessarily best for an expert -- as with cars etc. So be prepared to change a couple of years down the line.
Good luck, and let us know what you end up with.
Dave
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#290923 - 22/12/11 12:18 PM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: organgrinder]
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deanoet
Professional Forumite!
Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 108
Loc: Cleveleys, Nr. Blackpool
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I just hope the shop staff don't get fed up with me as I've been to 2 shops twice and still not made a decicion
If they do, go elsewhere. It is a good sign though that they are not trying to sell you the most expensive guitar you can afford. As has been stated, there are arguments for and against both approaches.
I bought a Vintage acoustic as my first guitar from a local guitar shop. They were friendly and like you, they recommended a cheaper one. Which i bought but it wasnt setup very well
So after my first lesson, by the time I had paid for a setup and action lowered i could have got a better quality Cort guitar from Richards.
But if i picked it up and hated it, I had only "lost" £120
It is always worth having a word with Richard. He is very helpful and knows his stuff. Not hard sell at all, and everything he posts is meticulously setup and good quality.
http://www.richardsguitars.co.uk
_________________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just learning... slowly... need more focus... oh look a squirrel
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#290941 - 22/12/11 11:32 PM
Re: Inexpensive beginner's guitar or the best I can afford?
[Re: Lester]
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Richard - Richards Guitars
Administrator & Forum Council Member
Old Timer
Registered: 30/07/01
Posts: 5500
Loc: 5 Tiddington Road, Stratford U...
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It still amazes me how rarely the word SETUP comes up in anyones recommendation when buying an acoustic guitar.
The fact that we can supply a second hand guitar for as little as £70 setup to perfection YET you can also spend hundreds (and even THOUSANDS in the case of say a Gibson!) of pounds on an acoustic that plays like a bag of nails demonstrates this point time and time again.
The reason it so rarely gets mentioned can only be that the people who you go to for advice (the shops) so rarely discuss this key point. They would rather have you believe the more you spend the better guitar you receive. This is just not a relationship you can trust!
More money spent does not equal better playability necessarily.
Every single brand of guitar at every price point I have ever sold has varied from guitar to guitar - of course there are more constants and less extremes in most cases but not all.
The amount of Takamine G series Guitars that come in which are utterly APPAULING - these retail around the £500 mark I believe new?
I currently have a £3000 Gibson for sale which should never have left the factory (priced accordingly with clear explanation off the issue).
I used to be the biggest dealer of Tanglwood Guitars in the UK - for a decade in fact! The day their Guitars stopped being produced by Cort their entire range changed overnight - for the worse. Not all their Guitars of course were bad but not generally as good as before.
Cort themselves have recently had issues on their +£450 price ranges yet their sub £400 instruments have got stronger than ever.
The Faith Guitars are extraordinarily good Guitars as each one is checked by Patrick Eggle who also designed them! However we still rejected one this week with a cosmetic flaw!!
As for not buying second hand? What was that dealer talking about?!!!! I think what he probably meant is that its a can of worms buying used because you do not know what you are buying in to. My response to that would be - How many dealers advice can you trust so what makes buying new any lesser can of worms? If they cannot educate you at point of sale about setups why should you trust the advice on which model to buy?
Our used guitars play BETTER than new, again, because of the setup procedure.
So maybe my final advice would be whatever guitar you do choose to buy, pop it to a local technician and get it nicely setup post sale - you will enjoy it all the more and nothing is more inspiring than a beautiful playing guitar.
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